Almost Famous
Shortly after I realized my child was autistic I did what most people do these days. Flipped on the PC to search for more information.I had no idea there would be quite that much information about autism on the web but I quickly realized I wouldn't learn all I needed to know in one week. How could I possibly sort through all of the websites and figure out which were accurate and helpful and which I should ignore or come back to later? It seemed like the best way to navigate the autism maze would be to draw on the experiences of other parents like me. Other parents of autistic children.
I joined several online discussion groups and started asking questions and I became very impressed, even amazed by how knowledgeable many of these parents seemed to be. There were a few parents who could suggest exactly the right supplement, or combination of supplements, to deal with any given symptom or behavior. Other parents could quickly tell you the exact mechanisms that triggered these symptoms and behaviors and explain the biology better than any doctor.
Even more amazing to me was the number of doctors and researchers who so generously donated their time and expertise to answer questions and give specific medical advice. Free! I never stopped to wonder why or how they might have so much free time to actively participate in these discussions but it sure felt nice to know they were available and to have all of these great parents and professionals to guide us.
As I became more familiar with these groups I noticed that a few names appeared more often than others and some names commanded instant respect and authority. These autism celebrities would all get together at autism conferences and talk about the latest autism research and treatment protocols and many of the other parents would look forward to these events with great excitement. They'd plan itineraries, arrange meeting places, book blocks of rooms, arrange parties, and list the stars they'd hoped to meet at the conference.
I started to think that some of these other parents had lost sight of their original motivation and were now caught up in the cult of autism-biomed. A lot like devoted fans who follow their favorite rockstars and pose for pictures with their heroes
backstage.The various autism groups are full of parents acting just like star-struck groupies even as they describe their efforts to help their children 'recover' from autism.
One such parent, and his fansite, hosts videos of all of the big autism-biomed celebrities along with pictures of the directors posing with 'legendary' autism rockstars. You can see the excitement by the look in their eyes and why shouldn't they be excited? How often do you have the opportunity to meet big mercury stars like David Kirby and the legendary Sallie Bernard?
This particular parent is so enamored with a father-son pair of autism celebrities he is following their advice and injecting his autistic daughter with the chemical castration drug Lupron. Now that's a devoted groupie if I ever did see one.Erik Nanstiel rarely hesitates to drop the names of the celebrities he has videotaped, often he'll brag "Yes, I have that kind of access" as he should; after all he's probably done more to promote the Geiers' Lupron Protocol than even the Geiers themselves. Sure it's dangerous and probably illegal but why should Erik worry about such things. He claims his daughter has made great progress while on Lupron so why shouldn't he spread the word. why shouldn't he try to convince as many parents as possible that Lupron will help to unlock the hidden mercury in their children and cure them of their autism.
Hold your lighters high. The Autism world rocks!
posted by notmercury @ 10:04 AM
42 comments
42 Comments:
In my mind and in my car,
We can't rewind we've gone too far
Keen post NM.
Extra credit if you get the name of the group for the above lyric without using the internet.
The buggles wasn't it? Also covered by "The presidents" if I'm not mistaken. First video played on MTV circa 1982? Trevor someone....maybe played with Yes at some point, not Trevor Rabin, the South African guitar wizard, Trevor something....
Well done NM.
Oh-a-aho oh
Oh-a-aho oh
What will it do to the autism star?
Tell me something, my pseudonymous friend. Just how much time DO you have on your hands? This is nothing more than whiny gossip and elementary-school, third grade teasing.
If that's what you call activism, good luck with it.
I'm going to continue doing what I do and helping parents learn how to help their kids. But don't let me stop you with your teasing... that's important work. ;-)
Erik
Oh not much time at all Erik, certainly less time than you spend roping in new victims for the Geiers.
Please keep up your important work. You are doing a Fan-tastic job.
For what it's worth, I'd only go to these conferences for the cool merchandise and to see if I can swing an all access pass. I do wonder, though...
Do the Geiers take their "world class lab" from the living room in their house and transport it to their tour bus when they go on the road? I gots to know.
actually, I can picture him break-dancing to this one.
And I'd rather chill with someone with a sense of humor than someone who preys on the helpless.
I'm going to continue doing what I do and helping parents learn how to help their kids.
Erik, it's pretentious of you to claim that you know how parents can help their autistic kids. There are no clinical studies on on the efficacy and - more importantly - the safety of the treatments you promote. Nor is there any valid science you could use to claim a probability of usefulness. And all the science you base this on has been shown to be terribly suspect, a fact you refuse to take into account. You claim your daughter's improvement can give you an idea of a treatment's efficacy. What, are you ignorant of the placebo-controlled studies on Secretin and what parents reported in those studies?
So, Erik, have you consulted with that pediatric endo yet?
...
Nah, didn't think so.
McGuffin
Erik-
Fact: a girl with high androgens does not have precocious puberty.
If your daughter has high androgens, why? Could be Polycystic ovarian syndrome, could be andrenal hyperplasia. What harm could seeing a pediatric endo do? And what harm could result from not getting a real diagnosis for her?
My Catholic faith teaches that fraud is theft. Every time you claim money from insurance for a disorder your daughter can't have, you are stealing. Is that justified in your Christiean faith?
You spend a lot of time assulting someones character like Erik, who is the parent of an autistic child. Your character has been exposed by insulting a parent who does long, detailed, commercial free interviews with the innovative leading autism doctors. They then post them all for free for everyone with internet to view at anytime. You are a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance when you poke fun at leading doctors from prestigious medical schools such as Johns Hopkins and Harvard. Or Jim Adams, from the June 4th dateline autism report. Oh, I think Erik posted that dateline NBC story on his organizations web site www.autismmedia.org But wait... he organized a meeting and much longer interview with the same doctor back in May. Both of Dr Adams interviews are posted on the website. I can tell you the NBC interview is not the better interview. Erik's efforts have helped thousands of parents and children.
Do you have so much envy that you have nothing positive, organized and effective to offer or is it that your a slug who is lazy and will not even attempt anything proactive. I will not waste anymore time replying to this. Anyone serious about treating and understanding autism would recognize FAIR Autism Media as a treasure of free information from the worlds leading and evolving autism research.
Michael-Many of us here are parents of autistic kids-I'm also a scientist, well able to judge the value of the information on FAIR. Free or worthless?
Fairytale autism media- and the "free" "advice" of the parents and professionals on Internet groups that you referred to NM, they remind me of the words to a song...
Good advice, good advice, good advice costs nothing and it's worth the price...
here.
Michael, Are you one of Mr. Nansteal's fans?
Personally, from looking at the kind of traffic that Mr. Nansteal's site gets, I'd be surprised if he's had hundreds of parents visit it, I seriously doubt that he can count one thousand parent viewers, much less thousands. You can check how much traffic his site gets on alexa.com.
Mr. Nansteal really doesn't have very many fans, the ones he has are devoted, for now. How devoted will they'll be when he announces that the whole Lupron thing was a mistake? I'm not entirely sure if Erik will remain a fan of the Geiers when he has to visit them in the pen, or if he has to share a cell with them.
The majority of people out there are sick of the mercury phobic vaccine hating world of Erik, Sallie Bernard and David Kirby. Schafer can't even get people to support him so he can keep blogging the SAR.
To "Honestly Said":
Okay, I feel the need to respond to this... Alexa.com is WAY off. Totally inaccurate. Did you ever see the hit counter on FAIR's home page? Those are only the visits to the home page! Most of our traffic goes to the other pages.
And we have hundreds of website referrers that link to us. From documentarians to doctors' offices, a few politicians...countless parental blogs... a bunch of web forums... in fact, the ones listed by alexa.com are sites from which we receive rather modest traffic.
We burn through 1 to three gigabytes of bandwidth every single day. With typically 200 to 300 unique visitors every single day.
Sorry to burst the bubble.
And to Ruth: all other known causes of high androgens were addressed and eliminated when my daughter was tested. She has high testosterone because her toxicity has interrupted her glutathione pathway...which is really central to autism. Glutathione not only helps detox metals, but plays a role in the regulation of sex hormones. My daughter's testosterone production was out of control. Now it's not. And she's getting better. Everyone who knows my daughter is amazed at her progress in such a short time.
Bye y'all. I won't be back.
Erik
When someone has a track record of dishonesty, why start believing what they preach simply because it's what you want to hear?
For example:
"all other known causes of high androgens were addressed and eliminated when my daughter was tested. She has high testosterone because her toxicity has interrupted her glutathione pathway...which is really central to autism."
Sounds nice. Sounds pretty. However, Erik knowingly displays innacurate, misleading, and outright dishonest material on his site (he has admitted that the mercury sheets idea, you know - the one his little theory is based upon, is bullshit).
Further, someone is lying to their insurance company to get some shots on the cheap. Wonder who that is?
I'm a parent of a child on the spectrum, now who the hell should I be listening to? Not someone with a dishonest track record, that's for sure.
The problem with adoring fans is that they want to be rockstars too but they never bothered to learn how to play.
You can sing the glutathione-testosterone-thimerosal song, you know all the words by heart, but the original songwriter had to have been high on acid when he jotted this crap down. Your version is like bad biomed karaoke.
The words you spit out are meaningless Erik. It would take much more than a few hundred milligrams of mercury to deplete glutathione in the human body.
If you are so convinced that your heroes have the answers and your daughter will be 'cured', why not wait until she is no longer autistic before you spread the word?
Does your faith dictate that you state as fact things you can't possibly know? Does your faith say anything about false witness and idols?
Face the real facts here Erik. You have no idea what is going on with mercury-testosterone sheets and Lupron and neither do the Geiers. It's a big fat dangerous experiment.
You have no right, legal or moral, to encourage other parents to experiment on their children even if you think you have the right to experiment on your daughter.
Turn those 3CCD's on yourself for a few and tell me if you like what you see?
But he stands next to greatness, so something has to rub off, right?
When I say greatness, I mean the dollar-is-god, commission-based salesreps and psychotic goldbrickers.
So did erik change the photo from the one where he and, Julie, the lady with the play-do phobia, who posts personal health info about her students without their parent's knowledge to Hg parent groups (in violation of HIPAA), posing with Kirby is now an ad for his lying-movie site?
Julie's child had a massive reaction to vaccines, she says, and later had a massive reaction to playing with play-do. It caused a huge regression, or something. Something about the gluten in it or something. Not sure if she's suing the play-do people.
grammar break down:
So did erik change the photo from the one where he and, Julie,... posing with Kirby SO THAT IT IS now an ad for his lying-movie site?
It's so nice that he includes an ad for Buttar. Buttar may have to join the Geiers and Erik in the big house. They could play bridge and canasta for years on end and talk about the good old days of Autism One...
This message is for notmercury:
Your message about Erik is completely misplaced and displays a lack of balance on your part. Why do you feel the need to disparage Erik? I have met him and find only that he sincerely wants to help his child and other children. No one is being forced to follow the medical protocols contained in the videos he posts on his web site. All parents are adults and they are trying to help their kids. Is it your intention to suppress the information made available by Erik and others? If so, you are far worse than anyone out there, for you wish to obstruct those who seek ways to help their kids.
I would respect your comments if you would address in a balanced way the interventions Erik and others pursue. Rather, you attack Erik and the others in an ad hominem fashion not even worthy of high school type name calling.
As for the groupie mentality you detect at the conferences – have you attended the conferences that you criticize? If you have, you would report, if you are fair, that the vast majority of parents are critical thinkers trying to evaluate the many therapies that may help their kids. Cutting edge science is often presented at the conferences. Most reasonable parents, and most who attend the conferences are reasonable, can discern what is real and what is hype, what is proven and what is theory. Give your fellow parents, if you are a parent, a little more credit. Sure, there are some parents and vendors who attend conferences who are zealots, and think that they have all the answers, but these people are in the minority, and such people will be found at any large grouping.
As for biomedical intervention and the science behind it, yes, much is speculative and theoretical, but I have found a wealth of sound science and medicine that likely will help many kids. Most medical and science presenters give cautionary advice, and recommend freqent testing to determine whether intereventions are being harmful and should be stopped. Yes, the secretin trials showed that many kids in that trial were not helped, but that is one interevention and it was subject to trials, and now we know that the benefits of secretin may be limited. By the way, for certain subtypes of children secretin may well be established to play a helpful role - studies are continuing.
Many other intereventions discussed at the conferences are supported by sound science.
Your entire tone smacks of envy, jealousy, sabotage, or just plain mean-spiritedness.
If you have something principled to say, then just say it. Otherwise, you are much worse than the people whom you have mischaracterized and defamed.
Erik is a decent and talented person who is performing a service for those who want information. If you don't like his site discard the url. Erik has never said he has all the answers. Who are you to judge what he is trying to do to help his daughter. Most of the persons featured on his videos are talented individuals attempting to make a contribution the understanding of what is termed "autism."
What is the alternative? Everything is genetic? That approach is far more suspect and is fundamentally based on a type of scientific charlatanism grounded primarily in researchers search for funding. The funding goes to genetics, and what has genetics produced for the understanding of autism. Precious little, except to understand genetic susceptibility to environmental triggers.
What are you doing for your kid, if you have one? I suggest that your judgments about Erik and biomedical information are biased, unfair, and based on incomplete information. And who are you to judge? And why do you care so much? The kids receiving biomedical interevention generally are being helped. And the Geiers, who are fine, sincere, and knowledgable people, do not represent all biomedical interventions.
I suggest you take a look at yourself before you damn a whole group of people who you do not know and who you surely do not understand.
Seems as if maybe NM's child wasn't mercury poisoned and probably not autistic, probably just born stupid, look at the parents!!!
There's a whole bunch of "righteous intentions" justifies action outside of reality and maybe the law in your post anon. After, and if, Not Mercury responds, perhaps you could explain that better.
Your character has been exposed by insulting a parent who does long, detailed, commercial free interviews with the innovative leading autism doctors.
I believe Erik communicates a lot with Geier & Geier. Yep, they are quite innovative, I'll give them that. Misrepresenting affiliations, making up IRBs, using dual terminology for insurance purposes -- man, they are good. And if it weren't for these meddling kids, they sure would've gotten away with it too.
No one is being forced to follow the medical protocols contained in the videos he posts on his web site.
That's a terrible argument. There's no need for the FDA then - it's a free for all on medical claims.
Anonymous 2:41 = geier, but is it Daddy or the Boy?
Hey 2:41, sweet post, I got through chapter 4 and then predicted the rest. Sure enough, I was right on. Amazing how the Geiers can come here and spew just how righteous they are - please just forget our lying about credentials, data, science, and insurance codes. Cue loser claiming to be 2:41 but not the Geiers in 3....2....1...
2:41 said, Erik is a decent and talented person who is performing a service for those who want information. If you don't like his site discard the url. Erik has never said he has all the answers. Who are you to judge what he is trying to do to help his daughter. Most of the persons featured on his videos are talented individuals attempting to make a contribution the understanding of what is termed "autism."
Are you serious? Are you sleeping with the guy who's lying to his insurance company and experiencing schadenfreude during the needle stick?
If you've read what NM has blogged, then you'd know the answers to the questions you've posed. But what you're trying to do here is simply throw mud at someone who is hitting a nerve. Why is NM hitting a nerve, because the truth hurts.
Anonymous 3:35 = Fore Sam, Handley's right hand man
The racist. The homophobe. The unapologetic bigot. The one who is most likely to kill his kid. Hi John!
And to Ruth: all other known causes of high androgens were addressed and eliminated when my daughter was tested.
REALLY?
What was the number for her ACTH?
What about baseline, 30, and 60min interval numbers for the stimulation test?
Did you get an MRI of the adrenal glands? CAH is one of the most common causes of high androgens. And I assume, since she had high androgens, that she was growing facial hair and her nether regions looked rather masculine.
That is, assuming she wasn't approaching adrenal crisis from sub-acute CAH (usually dx'd at birth). What was her blood pressure? Energy level? Did she have salt cravings?
Did you get an MRI on her head to rule out brain/pituitary tumors?
And did you know that Lupron doesn't hit androgens in females, just estrogen and progesterone? Because, like, there's no testicles in a girl, but there are ovaries...
*bets no answer will come*
*has adrenal problems and therefore knows allll the tests*
Whoa, Geier pére or Geier fils and/or their mom's visited here and posted at 2:41??
No answer from Erik about the insurance claims.
Schadenfreude, maybe,
insurancefraude definitely.
I don't know if geier-anon 2:41 can delete his or her post so I'm going to paste it here. Not mercury, sorry if this is annoying.
If I personally could stop Erik and the Geier vultures from spreading the "news" of this poisonous protocol, I would, gladly. They crossed the line a long time ago and are headed for criminal charges.
Anonymous said...
This message is for notmercury:
Your message about Erik is completely misplaced and displays a lack of balance on your part. Why do you feel the need to disparage Erik? I have met him and find only that he sincerely wants to help his child and other children. No one is being forced to follow the medical protocols contained in the videos he posts on his web site. All parents are adults and they are trying to help their kids. Is it your intention to suppress the information made available by Erik and others? If so, you are far worse than anyone out there, for you wish to obstruct those who seek ways to help their kids.
I would respect your comments if you would address in a balanced way the interventions Erik and others pursue. Rather, you attack Erik and the others in an ad hominem fashion not even worthy of high school type name calling.
As for the groupie mentality you detect at the conferences – have you attended the conferences that you criticize? If you have, you would report, if you are fair, that the vast majority of parents are critical thinkers trying to evaluate the many therapies that may help their kids. Cutting edge science is often presented at the conferences. Most reasonable parents, and most who attend the conferences are reasonable, can discern what is real and what is hype, what is proven and what is theory. Give your fellow parents, if you are a parent, a little more credit. Sure, there are some parents and vendors who attend conferences who are zealots, and think that they have all the answers, but these people are in the minority, and such people will be found at any large grouping.
As for biomedical intervention and the science behind it, yes, much is speculative and theoretical, but I have found a wealth of sound science and medicine that likely will help many kids. Most medical and science presenters give cautionary advice, and recommend freqent testing to determine whether intereventions are being harmful and should be stopped. Yes, the secretin trials showed that many kids in that trial were not helped, but that is one interevention and it was subject to trials, and now we know that the benefits of secretin may be limited. By the way, for certain subtypes of children secretin may well be established to play a helpful role - studies are continuing.
Many other intereventions discussed at the conferences are supported by sound science.
Your entire tone smacks of envy, jealousy, sabotage, or just plain mean-spiritedness.
If you have something principled to say, then just say it. Otherwise, you are much worse than the people whom you have mischaracterized and defamed.
Erik is a decent and talented person who is performing a service for those who want information. If you don't like his site discard the url. Erik has never said he has all the answers. Who are you to judge what he is trying to do to help his daughter. Most of the persons featured on his videos are talented individuals attempting to make a contribution the understanding of what is termed "autism."
What is the alternative? Everything is genetic? That approach is far more suspect and is fundamentally based on a type of scientific charlatanism grounded primarily in researchers search for funding. The funding goes to genetics, and what has genetics produced for the understanding of autism. Precious little, except to understand genetic susceptibility to environmental triggers.
What are you doing for your kid, if you have one? I suggest that your judgments about Erik and biomedical information are biased, unfair, and based on incomplete information. And who are you to judge? And why do you care so much? The kids receiving biomedical interevention generally are being helped. And the Geiers, who are fine, sincere, and knowledgable people, do not represent all biomedical interventions.
I suggest you take a look at yourself before you damn a whole group of people who you do not know and who you surely do not understand.
2:41 PM
I think all anon's are Erik actually. Either that, or he asked a bunch of his friends to post. More often than not, curebies are not up for debate, and for good reason. This is quite unusual. NM, I wouldn't blame if you remove anon 3:35. It's not only questionable for someone to diagnose and undiagnose over the internet and intend it as an insult, that person has clearly shown bigotry towards the mentally handicapped, which should be unacceptable in the autism community.
Anonymous said: Seems as if maybe NM's child wasn't mercury poisoned and probably not autistic, probably just born stupid, look at the parents!!!
Definitely Not Mercury poisoned, definitely autistic, we are all born stupid, most of us grow out of it.
Feel free to impress us with your own intelligence by explaining the biology of autism and/or mercury poisoning. Two very distinct conditions.
I see a description of groupie culture and a depiction of some of the online activities.
Nowhere, is anyone called stupid, mean, evil, or wrong because they participate in groupie-like culture.
The whiny arguments presented by anon about no balance and ad hominen don't cut it.
Balance:
Anon reader, perhaps you missed the linked content. I know it makes for a lot of reading, but contrary to what you may believe, not all bloggers link other content just to drive traffic for each other. Many bloggers link content which is important to the article, but someone else's work. So as to attribute proper credit and to not have to re-write all of the other author's work, content is linked. This does not mean the content is not important. If you didn't follow the link to the Neurodiversity.com series on the Geiers, Significant Misrepresentations, and the evolution of the Lupron Protocol, and read all four parts on your own (Not Mercury started with part one for you), then it's your own fault. As for balance, Not Mercury did link to the FAIR site so that ANY reader could see for themselves all that is there for display. There's also a ton of Erik's foolishness available on the web at various discussion forums and other blogs that Not Mercury could have linked to, but did not.
Ad hominem:
Ad hominem is fallacious when applied to deduction, and not the evidence (or premise) of an argument. Evidence may be doubted or rejected based on the source for reasons of credibility, but to doubt or reject a deduction based on the source is the ad hominem fallacy.
Valid Ad hominem
Example 1
1. A committed perjury when he said Q.
2. We should not accept testimony for which perjury was committed.
3. Therefore, A 's testimony for Q should be rejected.
Example 2
1. Erik promotes medical treatments that are not scientifically supported, potentially dangerous, and may involve questionable legal practices. (See linked content at both Neurodiversity and Autismmedia).
2. Promotion of medical treatments that are not scientifically supported, potentially dangerous, and may involve questionable legal practices should be questioned.
3. Therefore, Erik's promotion of these treatments is not above reproach.
Reasons Of Credibility
Lack of supporting scientific evidence
Lack of supporting safety assurances
Potential illegality involved
Real Ad-Hominem:
Erik participates in groupie-like culture, therefore his promotions should not be considered.
Erik is a conspiracy theory nutjob, therefore his promotions are invalid.
This can easily be straightened out, all Erik needs to do is provide the supporting science (not testimonials or anecdotes) that justifies this treatment and its promotion, verifiable safety assurances, and confirmation of legality (which will also need the supporting science).
As far as Michael's question:
"Do you have so much envy that you have nothing positive, organized and effective to offer or is it that your a slug who is lazy and will not even attempt anything proactive."
That's hilarious. I don't think any clear-headed person would want to be in Erik's shoes right now for anything.
How telling that the Geiers have taken to anonymously posting on blogs in their own defense...smells like panic to me. Quick, somebody subpoena their records before one of them goes shred-happy.
I'm sure that once Erik was a good parent. I am a biomed parent of an autistic child myself, and I can understand the urge to heal your child and to help out others. Heck, I once considered becoming a Rescue Angel. But there's a difference between me and Erik. If I am treating my child, I want to be sure that first, I do no harm! I do pay attention to parental reports. I read carefully in the real, validated scientific literature. Then, I always try out any supplements etc. on myself, and often on my husband. Sometimes I have found bad reactions, and I would never give that particular supplement to my child.
I can see that Erik has moved waaay past my approach. Would he be willing to try the Lupron injections on himself? And he must know that the Geiers are engaging in behavior that is definitely beyond the norm. I've carefully read all of Kathleen's excellent posts on their significant misrepresentation, and frankly, I'm appalled. I cannot believe that a loving parent could still put any trust in people like that to treat his child. So, I'm forced to conclude, like NotMercury, that Erik has been brain washed.
This message is for anonymous 2:41:
”Your message about Erik is completely misplaced and displays a lack of balance on your part.”
(blinks) Not Mercury has written a critical post. Critical work is by definition, not balanced.
“Why do you feel the need to disparage Erik? I have met him and find only that he sincerely wants to help his child and other children.”
The problem is not Erik’s wish to help others, but the ethics, methods, and rationalizations for that “help”.
“No one is being forced to follow the medical protocols contained in the videos he posts on his web site.”
And no one is forcing Erik or anyone else to read this post.
“All parents are adults and they are trying to help their kids.”
(blinks) No, not all parents are adults. And no, not all parents are trying to help their kids. And among those parents who are adults who are trying to help their kids, not all of the “help” is ethical or defendable from a scientific viewpoint.
“Is it your intention to suppress the information made available by Erik and others?”
(sighs) Time-out, criticizing a view or the ethics or someone who holds a view does not equal attempting to suppress information. To state such is a false equation.
“If so, you are far worse than anyone out there, for you wish to obstruct those who seek ways to help their kids.”
I can think of a number of ways to “help” kids that I would be honored to be listed as aiding in the obstruction of. Suppressing physical abuse comes to mind rather quickly.
”I would respect your comments if you would address in a balanced way the interventions Erik and others pursue. Rather, you attack Erik and the others in an ad hominem fashion not even worthy of high school type name calling.”
I respect Not Mercury for making arguments that directly state the relevant points while nOT using an argumentum ad hominem, I couldn’t care less, whether there was balance as long as the point sw ere made in a factual, ethical, logical manner. Also, someone else just explained to you why no argumentum ad hominems occurred here, I hope you pay attention to what was said.
”As for the groupie mentality you detect at the conferences – have you attended the conferences that you criticize? If you have, you would report, if you are fair, that the vast majority of parents are critical thinkers trying to evaluate the many therapies that may help their kids.”
(shakes head) That is not going to fly. You should be trying to show that the vast majority of parents who attend such conferences are critical, not assuming it. To do that is type of circular logic, which is a no-no.
“Cutting edge science is often presented at the conferences. Most reasonable parents, and most who attend the conferences are reasonable, can discern what is real and what is hype, what is proven and what is theory.”
Can you provide an example of this cutting edge science?
“As for biomedical intervention and the science behind it, yes, much is speculative and theoretical, but I have found a wealth of sound science and medicine that likely will help many kids.”
Excellent, I eagerly await the chance to read your thoughtful, well designed and controlled proofs, no doubt soon to be published is a reputable journal having undergone a process of peer review.
“Many other intereventions discussed at the conferences are supported by sound science.”
Really, so they have the type of proof I have asked for above. What are the citations?
”Your entire tone smacks of envy, jealousy, sabotage, or just plain mean-spiritedness.”
I thought Not Mercury was funny, interesting, and honest.
”If you have something principled to say, then just say it. Otherwise, you are much worse than the people whom you have mischaracterized and defamed.”
Sorry Anonymous, ethics are not defined by employing humor to help point out the fallacies in thinking used by others. The case might change, when the humor turns cruel, which did not happen here. A given level of flippancy, irreverence, and sarcasm and entirely permissible in good debate
”Erik is a decent and talented person who is performing a service for those who want information.”
Not Mercury has criticized the quality of the information being distributed and thus, the level of disservice being given.
“If you don't like his site discard the url.”
No dice, Erik’s site gives certain information, some of which (I think) should be challenged loudly and clearly.
“Erik has never said he has all the answers. Who are you to judge what he is trying to do to help his daughter.”
A person who is going to make a judgment.
“Most of the persons featured on his videos are talented individuals attempting to make a contribution the understanding of what is termed "autism."”
As they like, but what they say is likely to be challenged and it must survive scrutiny.
”What is the alternative? Everything is genetic?”
Is that the only alternative? Either the mercury dunnit or it is the genes? Methinks you just employed a false opposition.
“That approach is far more suspect and is fundamentally based on a type of scientific charlatanism grounded primarily in researchers search for funding.”
Nice work, you have just given a perfectly adequate example of what an ad hominem (subtype: circumstantial) actually looks like, by listing the motivation for genetic research being the greed for grant money. Not to mention that you tossed in a sweeping generalization by stating that investigating for genetic causes is “far more suspect” while failing to provide a shred a supporting argument.
“The funding goes to genetics, and what has genetics produced for the understanding of autism. Precious little, except to understand genetic susceptibility to environmental triggers.”
We would have to know what those triggers are in the first place in order for the above to work. None of that has been proven yet, leaving us to wander in the circles of the above logic.
“I suggest that your judgments about Erik and biomedical information are biased, unfair, and based on incomplete information.”
I suggest that you attempt to show how….
“The kids receiving biomedical interevention generally are being helped.”
How do you know?
Well hi there Mike,
“You spend a lot of time assulting someones character like Erik, who is the parent of an autistic child.”
The above would be an appeal to Samaritan Intent, which is an error of logic. Regardless of whether Erik is channeling Mother Theresa herself, it still doesn’t make what he does, ethical, scientific, and certainly not above reproach, even when that reproach is given in the form of humor.
“Your character has been exposed by insulting a parent who does long, detailed, commercial free interviews with the innovative leading autism doctors.”
That would be an appeal to authority, which is another logic error. The Geier’s and company could be the brightest, most learned persons on the block, but that doesn’t mean that there theories are right, ethical, or above reproach. You are two for two Mike, you need to pick up your game a bit.
“They then post them all for free for everyone with internet to view at anytime. You are a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance when you poke fun at leading doctors from prestigious medical schools such as Johns Hopkins and Harvard.”
No dice, you could trot out a women who has two MDs one from Oxford and one Harvard, who is an editor of the journal “Science” and who has Nobel, who backs what you say, and this still wouldn’t prove your case. That is because the proof must stand independent from any individual; that is the way science works. No points this round Mike.
“Erik's efforts have helped thousands of parents and children.”
How so?
“Do you have so much envy that you have nothing positive, organized and effective to offer or is it that your a slug who is lazy and will not even attempt anything proactive.”
Ad hominem, no points.
“I will not waste anymore time replying to this. Anyone serious about treating and understanding autism would recognize FAIR Autism Media as a treasure of free information from the worlds leading and evolving autism research.”
(tries to follow logic circle, but gets dizzy and falls down).
Envy? Oh no, my deepest darkest secret is out. I'm a wannabe Loopy Groupie. I'm sooooo jealous because I don't have my own entourage of fraud detectives, federal agents and investigative journalists following me everywhere I go. I'm gonna pout and scream until the prosecutors start asking for my autograph, too. How come nobody is offering me a leisurely all-expenses-paid vacation at a luxurious government-owned resort, with a new wardrobe of lovely slimming vertical stripes? It's not fair, I tell ya.
What do you mean, a plea bargain isn't like a half price sale at the shoe store. Waaaah. Maybe I'll be a Manson Girl instead.
I forgot to mention - to Anon 6:16 - I loved this bit:
"Schadenfreude, maybe,
insurancefraude, definitely."
Michael/anon/Erik/David G./David A./whoever you are:
Are you ready to explain how "righteous intentions" justifies actions?
I went back and found this by Anon 2:41:
And the Geiers, who are fine, sincere, and knowledgable people, do not represent all biomedical interventions.
That has to be the most clueless statement of the year.
Along with this one from Erik's site-
"They've found that testosterone actually binds to mercury, increasing its toxicity and keeping it in the body."
What a load of bull you lot talk.
It's a parents right to give a child a FDA approved safe treatment, if they believe it will benefit them. It has nothing to do with anyone else.
If the treatment is not effective then all that is lost is time and money. Something I'm sure any caring parent of a disabled child would gladly give.
One thing is for certain: mercury, a proven neurotoxin, should not be present in any vaccines, especially since it only serves as a preservative. I'm sure they could find something safer that would still give them the $$ saving.
The FDA have recommended that it should be phased out of vaccines.
That should tell you something.
you know not mercury, you should really stop your bitching! at least erik has the balls to do something about it, while all you do is sit-on your halfmoons and whine about it on your silly little blog! want to change the sitaution? then get up and do something positive!
not mercury, you have a whiny, gossipy, pathetic blog and you have way too much time on your hands. why are you so hostile towards doctors and families who try the biomed approach to help thier kids? at least erik is doing something productive. don't bother responding because i will never read your blog again.
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